I'll update this when the pressure testing data comes back. And I might need to grind away on the final crimp "frame" to gain a little more clearance. So I think the mystery of the extra pellets is pretty simple - Hevi-Steel stack height is just slightly taller and they are able to squeeze in those extra pellets. I've cruised Cabelas, Sportsmans, etc. My gently modified Franchi eats these shells up. I would stay away from the uncoated, rough finished stuff because most of what I've seen is rusty. Conclusion? And one more 38gr sealed, fully-slit, load 3 shot cumulative - just for grins. No sealant, 3shot cumulative string at 40 yards, the 30 inch circle is from me eyeballing the center of the cloud. Anyways, I'm not impressed. I.e. One time my pattern percentages were in the low 60% range. So off I went to Harbor Freight to pick up a $7.50 (20% off coupon) hollow punch set. So I'm going to measure the velocity of 10 shot strings to see if there is a meaningful difference. I need somebody to invent a #3 steel pellet counter and a shell stomper. Side view of the stack height - the dark line above the brass is the top of the powder. I would love to have a 1400+fps 1oz load that uses Alliant Steel, but every time I find one it requires a wad or hull I don't have. According to BPI, roll-crimping decreases start pressure, which might not have been a good thing with Alliant Steel. Startup cost is noticeable. But not one of those pretty plated #3 steel pellets touched the bird. What will likely happen is some adventurous hobbyist will automate the loading process one of these days - TAM be damned. There are two types of Fiocchi hulls that I have seen. Well I've done that now - the shells go BANG and the ducks drop from the sky, so I'll likely not actively work on reloading stuff much anymore. The downside to lowering the final crimp punch out of it's threads is that it "floats", and floating results in an uneven crimp. I suspect that this will be within SAAMI 12Kpsi, and so would be safe in my 1936 LeFever. This is fairly easy to test. Achieving those velocities required new powders and new load recipes. Or maybe down to 34 grains. I gotta believe shooting a rusted together slug of steel is tough on your choke. pactice ammo. Yet another challenge. Other than the shift, there really isn't a significant difference between the two. The required accuracy for shot-shell reloading is well within the accuracy of a $35 electronic scale. A Google of the subject shows a few people slightly damaging their shotguns, but no blow ups. 2-3/4 inch 16mm BRASS CLEAR TUBE, UNSKIVED PRIMED WITH FIOCCHI 616 PRIMER YOU WILL NEED TO CHOSE FROM THE DROP DOW WHICH KIND YOU First of all, I discovered that Kent's advertised velocity is accurate, running ~1540fps from my 26" barrel. Cheddite hull/primer, 420gr #3 steel shot, PT2092 wad enhanced with a blue disc, 38gr LilGun, roll crimp - Here I just want to see if I can stop the gas-check punch through experienced previously and not have bloopers due to the roll crimp. Here's some info I've posted before on that topic. The chronograph and wad inspection will give me some ideas whether things went the way I think they should. I happen to use the Precision Reloading product. Be the first to review “New Primed Shotgun Hulls” Cancel reply Your email address will not be published. I don't have Mossberg 500 20 gauge handy, but they state that it will handle a 2.75" shell(Maverick 20ga cycles 2.78" she'll fine). Note the average velocities didn't vary much. You want something that is accurate to +/-0.1 grains (0.2 grains accuracy). #9 shot, Ballistic Products Piston Skeet wad, Promo powder, and Win or Fiochhi primers. Find Bulk 20 gauge ammunition fast and cheap with Americas best ammunition search engine. No magic, i.e. Here's where some pictures are necessary. But I can get Kent Fasteel which is 7/8oz @1550fps for $13/25. L->R, PT2092, SAM1, CSD20 - Side view of the gas check design, L->R, PT2092, SAM1, CSD20 - End view of the gas check design. The ideal distance was ~3.6" with the ram lowered completely, and the press setup for 3.5" shells. Well maybe more than nothing, but their load data like throwing the shot with your hand. And these shells knock the snot out of ducks. Velocities had to rise to make steel usable. But there was a huge difference between the #4 and #3 leaving me to believe that the PT2092 will need a mylar/teflon wrap if you want to go bigger than #3. Didn't think much of it at the time. Now I know that lead shot doesn't have to go 1400+fps to work, nor does steel shot need to go 1500fps, but that is what I want, and that's my bias. If you happen to own a press that will fold crimp a tall shell (sorry MEC users), you won't have a problem. It doesn't matter - people get all twisted up over meaningless variations of 50fps or so. You can get scales more accurate, but that accuracy isn't all that important for shot-shell reloading. Hull trimmed to 2.9", showing un-tamped stack height with 1 oz of #3 shot, COL difference - L->R 2.9" trim, 2.7" trim, 2.8" trim, I'm pretty sure that my chronograph was struggling with the lighting, so I'll update this later when I can capture some better data. Ballistic Products carries the top brands in 20 gauge hulls, including: Fiocchi, Federal, and our very own Multi-Hull brand. An Italian tradition of excelling in primed hulls, these are sure to please the seasoned handloader. But a press allows you to assemble shells faster. I fiddled with the wad slitting, choke, velocity - no real affect. As it is, I have ~70% patterns, which meet Tom Roster's minimums for large ducks over decoys. Hopefully you can see from the photos that they are only slit halfway down and slits tend to spiral and the petals are not uniform in width. Because these low-end scales are not guaranteed to be linear over their entire weight range. Does-the-Makeup-of-the-Over-Shot-Card-Matter, Winchester Xpert 3" Steel shot shell - 2.62" long, Hevi-Steel 3" Steel Shot shell - 2.64" long, Once fired Federal 2 3/4" Lead shot shell - 2.67", Once fired Herters (Cheddite hull) 2 3/4" Lead Shot Shell - 2.72", SAAMI MAP is lower than CIP HP MAP - 12Kpsi versus 15.2Kpsi. I'm not even sure why Remington bothers selling these - only the 1oz load makes sense. And If I was a little crooked I could simply run the tool on it a little more - so easy compared to MEC's fold crimp. I only tested 4 petal splits. So I did a little math and discovered that at Station 4, with a typical shot distance of 25 - 30 yards, the difference in lead from wet fart to screaming death ray is about 1 foot. Well to get a starting point, I can refer to pressure test data I obtained from Precision reloading. I know there is much written on the subject, but I thought I'd check it myself. When the 3" 20 gauge shell was introduced in 1954, there was no attempt to prevent it from being fired in  2 3/4" chambered shotguns. Yet another problem to solve. Shell locating plate (black) at the pre-crimp and final crimp stations. Why more boo-boos with a single-stage? Shotgun reloading technology and equipment is very primitive compared to metalic. Both have crush sections, both easy to get pretty crimps. I'll run these over the Crony one of these days. Remington has set the bar for velocity with steel loads. Gamers tend to use fast powders that build pressure very quickly, hittin the SAAMI max pressure at a bit over 1200fps. Place charged and stuffed wad on scale and press "tare". 3" shells won't load and fire in a 2 3/4" chambered firearm - yes they will. Sign in|Recent Site Activity|Report Abuse|Print Page|Powered By Google Sites. Sometimes stuff just doesn't work out the way I think it should. I'd love to get some Alliant Steel and maybe one day it will be available. squashing). The following used the SAM1 wad, slit by hand, and completely slit down to the base. Crimp punch is back completely out of the threads, pre-crimp is extended as far as possible. I'm pretty much only going to use #5 shot. The curled-forward gas-check is happening as the wad exits the muzzle, not in the chamber, as evidenced by the low ES of the SAM1 wad. Shotgun barrels burst because of reloaders deviating from established recipes - I haven't found a case of that yet. Seems like there should be a better way. One aspect of pellet size worth mentioning, since this blog is about reloading 20 gauge, is that pellet count variation effects stack height, and stack height effects crimping and final COL. But understand that BPI produces that load data partially as a sales tool for their components. Hevi-Steel is doing some creative numerical rounding to get to an ounce. Roll crimping requires precise trimming of hulls. But before I do, I thought it best to pattern the gun. Customization - I can raise/lower velocity, increase/decrease payload, etc. Red Dot with a CB SO clone and 1 oz. No joke, that is about the extent of the instructions. And I see LongShot on the shelves more often than any of the other general purpose powders, so grab it too. After over 140 years of activity in the production of a wide range of small-calibre ammunition, Fiocchi is appreciated in hunting, target shooting, security and defence fields, as well as in specific industry sectors So I thoroughly absorbed those detailed instructions, grabbed a handful of spent 20 gauge Federal target load hulls and set to work. Want to Buy/Trade Threads - Participating Members, Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I would prefer a higher velocity, and I suspect it could be achieved using LilGun, but this is good enough for a heavy load. (2) roll-crimp instead of fold. The other way MEC could've fixed this would've been to give a column height position in between the "top hole" and "middle hole" on the column. could've been caused by my crummy reloading. An uber-lightweight 20ga can be a nasty recoiling weapon if not properly fitted, and all too often kids are given "starter" shotguns that aren't adjustable (Those break-action single shots are the worst). Nuclear for Quail,  too heavy for Ruff Grouse, OK for Blues and excellent for Chukar. Although this restriction isn't much more than an extra full-choke at the muzzle, the pressure at the chamber where the powder is still burning can rise above material strength of the steel. Fiocchi 20 ga 2 3/4" hulls - 16 mm Fiocchi 20ga 2-3/4" new/primed 16mm brass, yellow tube (100/bag) Color: Yellow Top Edge: … I can see why folks say that the pattern board will drive you mad. Left = No sealant, right = Ducco sealant - the circles are my eyeballing the cloud center. So I did a little experiment to see how short a COL I could achieve by trimming the hull prior to roll crimping. Buy bulk ammo for sale with free shipping at Target Sports USA. I picked this one up for $35. Very few flyers at this sedately speed with high-antimony shot. Featuring cheap 20 gauge shotgun ammunition shells in stock and in bulk. But there is almost an 18" shift to the right at 40 yards. Have there been bulged barrels from shooting 3" shells in 2 3/4" chambered shotguns? I measured the chamber of the LeFever and as near as I could measure, it was. None of the above wads have a crush section, so when loading water fowl capable steel shot, count the pellets exactly, consider roll-crimping, or use a filler over the top of the shot. First off, you do not need a shotgun reloading press to load shotgun shells. And there is only one rather pathetic owner's manual for the Sizemaster. Typical variation of (2) #3 steel pellets makes much less difference than the same variation in #2 steel. The only downside is that it has a fairly fast power-off for battery saving, so you have to learn to touch it every few seconds to reset the timer. I would guess that each crimp took less than 5 seconds. The following is made by Bob Patterson in Wyoming. I've pretty much zeroed in on this load for duck out to 40 yds. Less lead and less wind deflection. And the potential for damage is real. They don't. Skived for improved 6 pt, 8 pt, or Roll Crimp. Gauge 12, 16, 28, 20, 410 Length 2 3/4 in., 3 in., 2 1/2 in., 3 1/2 in. But also note the large Extreme Spread highlighted. Not worth $22/25 to me. The construction of this shell is first rate: sealed primer, sealed fold, zinc-plated shot, a really cool wad, and a thick one-piece straight-walled hull. but never run across a basic load block. Other than the shooter doesn't aim all that well, the patterns don't look much different. I know folks reload without a scale, but I'm not going to recommend it as I think it is better to have an accurate view of what you are doing. This is a common issue with both 12 & 20 gauge Benelli and Franchi autoloaders. The old system behind shotguns is not perfect and has numerous inconsistencies. I got this load straight out of Ballistic Products Advantages Manual - 9th edition. You may not know this, but LilGun has a reputation in handgun reloading of being just too hot burning. Fasteel #2 and #3 use different powders. So I can build my own loads for ~$6/25 - which is about the cost of buying wet fart target loads. Pressure and velocity are somewhat loosely related. Winchester Expert shot extends about the shot cup by a good margin. I intend to try to create loads that will stay safely under CIP High Performance. I'm wondering if slowing it down would improve the pattern significantly. Yes, there are some minor differences, but you need to remember that I only checked a sample of (1) and my equipment isn't lab grade. And my shotgun didn't tear itself apart. 20 yard max with those tiny, low-density pellets. And I've used it in 44 mag and can confirm that it does heat my revolver faster than other magnum-capable powders like 2400, H110/296, Enforcer, AA#9. Kent Fasteel claims 1550fps, Winchester Expert claims 1500fps, and Hevi-Steel claims 1400fps. Too bad the RSI data for the SAM1 is so anemic as it looks like it is a great candidate for a 1oz @1500fps waterfowl load. Most of these are urban and forum myths that go round and round. Machines don't have senior moments, they don' get distracted. Federal Cartridge 3rd Degree Turkery 20 Gauge Ammo 3 Inch 1-3/8 oz Shot #5 Find what you need in six easy steps. Buck's Run is a standup outfit - they compensated me by sending a replacement order of un-slit wads. The ones I've seen were genius and very easy to use. But if you are willing to trim hulls and aggressively tamp down components (I use a wood dowel and mallet), you can roll-crimp a 1 oz load that will work. - Carlson Light Modified Sporting Clays choke, Very Poorly Slit RSI SAM1 Wads from Buck's Run. So I did. With all this hocus-pocus I was able to get a reasonable 6 point crimp, but I couldn't get the taper portion of the final crimp to work - no biggee. I picked 3 wads at random and loaded them up with 1 oz of #3 steel shot, shoved by 38gr of LilGun to 1485fps at 11.5Kpsi. If you don't own an Italian semi-auto shotgun, then none of this is likely an issue for you. Trimming the hull to 2.8" seems to work the best mechanically. I don't know why manufacturers shy away from the effort. Sunny days tend to register a little slower in my experience - maybe 30fps. I have no idea what somebody would hunt with #7 steel shot, but it certainly isn't any water fowl or upland bird I chase (starlings maybe?). The following are some loads that interest me. Here is an example of a potential problem when reloading high-performance 3" shells - keeping them separate for two very different era shotguns. I've got a garbage bag full of once-fired Federal Target hulls (paper basewad) and a brick of Winchester 209 primers. Reviews There are no reviews yet. Whereas SAAMI specs Cartridge Overall Length for finished shotgun shells, CIP doesn't. After shooting some, I wouldn't feel comfortable loading larger than #3 shot in the PT2092. The second two are the same distances but with my favorite Carlson Extended Light Modified (.605). Roll crimping didn't have as much velocity decrease as I expected. Very tiring. Since I never sorted to eliminate loading the "voids", it is possible that the burn-through is simply due to wad quality. Slow and heavy - 1350fps - Remington Nitro Steel 1oz 20ga, Federal 1350fps 1oz 20ga, Light and Fast - 1550fps Kent Fasteel 7/8oz 20ga, Remington Hypersonic 1600fps 7/8oz 20ga. And since I'm loathe to shoot Mergansers (even though they need culling), the biggest bird for me is a fat drake Mallard. No scuffing of the bore and choke. Notice the height L->R, new 3" cheddite hull, 3" Winchester Xpert 3" 7/8" oz #2 Steel, Hevi-Steel, Kent Fasteel 3". These are 40 yard patterns through a light-modified choke, so I'm more surprised that they don't open up more. Here are the two split lengths. I chose Ducco cement because it looks somewhat frangible, is viscous enough to form a plug, and does not dissolve hull plastic (I tested it). Because it is easy compared to trying to adjust that POS MEC (a bit of frustration that will pass). So I thought I would put those pictures here so they are easier to find. I received a new order of 3" 20 gauge SAM1 wads - preslit. There are really three questions that should be answered about crimp sealers: Who knows, maybe I'll take my Franchi Affinity turkey hunting. Mark - not sure if this is a proof mark. When the wads don't blow, the ES of the 420gr loads is reduced from 100fps to 60fps. The 1oz load ran perfect. So the question is -  why am I doing this? The proponents of the 1350fps loads then propagate this error by loudly announcing that they kill ducks just fine, without mentioning they also do so at 25yds. So the bottom line is that if you are doing a 3" 20 gauge shell with a stack height that will yield a finished COL of 2.61" then the Sizemaster will give you a good fold crimp. Lets see, an ounce is 437 grains. An electronic scale, something to tamp with, and a crimping tool  is enough to load new primed hulls. Given the variation inherent in the reloading process, these. At 40 yards I want enough pellets in the 30" circle to satisfy Tom Roster's lethality index, (no reason to doubt his work), and I want those pellets to penetrate a medium duck completely. High brass is more powerful than low brass - meaningless - Everybody uses brass-washed steel and Active used to produce an all-plastic hull. The two  vertical bars etched into the pattern board represent 10". Voids in the PT2092 gas check (they don't go all the way through). I ran some more Ducco-sealed loads over the Chrony on a warmer, clearer day - the numbers are rational. My Point? I then assembled the (38gr LilGun, 420gr #3 steel shot, Ched/Ched) load and roll-crimped it. BPI has a nice load using the SGL20 wad using 24 grains of LongShot. The hand-slit wads looked fine. ), but it is a problem in Benelli and Franchi semi-autos. Just got to remember to bring a towel to wipe my hands as the motor-oil based paint is messy. Why? Slower loads will experience a larger wind drift. There are no videos covering the details of each gauge. Keep the wind at your back - fine if you're not in a fixed blind, Shoot larger shot? 1200fps is fast enough - yes, if all you're trying to do is break a clay pigeon. I also have a mental problem with #2 shot because I just can't get enough pellets into a 20 gauge shell,(although the penetration is excellent). Now I ordered 1oz, but Cabelas shipped 7/8oz. 3" Cheddite Hull, Win 3" Xpert 7/8oz, PT2092 wad with 406 grains of #4 Steel shot. Because the 2-3 pellet variation inherent in the MEC system is too much. I am a member of a nearby trap & skeet club with a nice impact board. When I need 20-gauge nontoxic shot loads for pheasant, I go with factory 1-ounce steel loads. (Fasteel ran 1540fps with a 30fps ES). My reloads aren't bad, but 38gr of LilGun is too much for the PT2092 wad on a hot day. Or if you are a machinist wizz then you'll probably modify your MEC to crimp tall shells. These discs might be too big for some hulls. BPI's and PR's instructions are spot on - keep the tool about 100*F (slightly warm) and fiddle until you figure it out. I didn't discover some setup mistake - the MEC won't crimp a tall shell. But they didn't. Of special note is the very low basewad height they achieve with the one piece injection-molded hull, which greatly increases the usable capacity. I may regret this, but if you want to ask a question or set me straight on something, go ahead and drop me a note at - auntbelindamobile@gmail.com. It is almost as though they went out of business 20 years ago and they only have an Ebay store front selling their remaining stock (or made in China). Overshot cards are bad  - They don't effect the pattern and they help make a pretty crimp. COL of 2.67" just barely works in my Franchi. My 40 yard patterns are ~60%, which isn't great (room for improvement). There is some data from the European manufacturers, but it is sparse and relatively low-performance (remember that CIP mandates momentum limits which essentially makes their "approved" loadings pretty wimpy compared to what we do here in the US). Safe for an old shotgun. spacing up the shell plate. What does the speed difference between a single-stage and a progressive mean? to achieve best killing effectiveness. BPI gets their loads to 420 grains by "nudging" (i.e. I expect no change in velocity even though I'm roll crimping because the wad won't leak as much. Such a nice piece of wood that I almost don't want to use it, but it is a darn handy tool for small batch loading. The easiest crimping approach is the roll crimp. The loads and data are as follows (70*F, 68% RH, 29.80 BP): The cost was $75, plus $13.40 shipping via UPS Ground. I'll probably combine this with the "CIP versus SAAMI" section so as to make it very easy to see the problem dimensionally. I have a large number of the light purple fiocchi hulls and am thinking about reloading some of them for 1 oz. The most practical press is the MEC Sizemaster ($275), then there is Universal Charge Bar ($50), Steel kit ($30), powder/primers/wads/shot, etc, etc, etc. into the hull. So if you are a gamer,, (skeet, trap, sporting clays, etc. Our European friends design their modern shotguns for a working pressure of 15,229psi (1050 bar). Ducco-sealed, 3shot cumulative string at 40 yards, the 30 inch circle is from me eyeballing the center of the cloud. Can't use the wad guide with full-size wads - not enough room so you have to remove it. and he's spent the large $-signs to use Tungsten shot. This is a lot of 500 Federal 20 gauge shotgun shells hauls. Unless that is just different lots of the same Alliant Steel. FIOCCHI 12ga PRIMED SHOTSHELL HULLS. Ballistic Products PT2092 wad is the best wad for 3" steel shot where the load is 420gr or less and the shot size is #3 or smaller. I'm not an author, just a hobbyist. I use #5 simply because that is what I have on hand, and it happens to be a popular size for Turkey. I cut my own from some very "non-frangible" material using a Harbor Freight 5/8" Plug Cutter. I came into several thousand of the light purple hulls already deprimed and sized from my brother in law when he became disabled. Here are the BPI OS20 (0.028" cardboard) OS card loads, Here are the blue cutting board material OS card loads, And here are the Grey plastic OS card loads. So it is possible that I say stuff that I later contradict, or come to different conclusions, or wads/hulls/powders go out of style/no longer available. This wad will protect your barrel/choke with all shot sizes. Sometimes the pattern is tight, sometimes a little looser - I don't see any donuts, or major spreading. Can I improve the PT2092 by adding a blue disc of cutting board material? Hodgdon also has a nice load hitting the same 1450fps using the Federal 20S1 and a little more LongShot. They're 0.028" - 0.030". Momentum restrictions for CIP HP are meaningless (11.5N/M), especially in light of : Kent Fasteel 7/8oz @1560fps (24.8gram @475.88M/S = 11.8N/), Hevi-Steel 1oz @1400fps (28.35grams @ 426.72M/S = 12.1N/M). Pressure and momentum are two very different quantities and not at all related. Suggest you use a european primer like the Fiocchi, Rio or Noble sport. What I might try is slowing this load down a bit - probably drop from 38 to 36 grains of LilGun. 15/16 ounce is 410 grains. Disclaimer: Please keep in mind, this is just a general representation of this retailers shipping price practices. Maybe one day I will take a grinder to my Franchi, but for now I thought I would address the roll-crimp COL issue. My drill has a max RPM of 750, and I found that somewhere less than half-throttle seemed to work pretty good. Until a manufacturer makes a hull/wad combo available with greater capacity, 1 oz is on the hairy edge of viability. Why? Nickel Plated Lead Golden Pheasant, 20 Gauge 3" Fiocchi Golden Pheasant ammunition combines high quality powder, primers, and hulls with hard, nickel plated shot to deliver the terminal performance required for pheasant hunting. Given that I think 1500fps is plenty for nearly 15/16 of #3 steel shot, and  that the 38gr load with blown wads was running in the mid-1500fps, I'm confident that finding a gas check solution will make this a very good duck load. I'm doing stuff in this writeup that makes sense to. But there will never be a recipe for reusing these hulls as Remington does not sell the wads to the great unwashed masses.
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